RE: IUP Accessibility Concerns and Praise

["Antonio Scuri" <scuri@...>]

  Hi,

  Thanks for choosing IUP, and for all the good impressions.

  IupTree is a custom control because of historical reasons and IUP 2.x
limitations. We are working on IUP 3.0 where IupTree will use the native
controls. We expect the first BETA for the end of this month.

Best Regards,
Antonio Scuri

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lua-bounces@bazar2.conectiva.com.br [mailto:lua-
> bounces@bazar2.conectiva.com.br] On Behalf Of Veli-Pekka Tätilä
> Sent: domingo, 14 de setembro de 2008 09:49
> To: Lua list
> Subject: IUP Accessibility Concerns and Praise
> 
> Hi list,
> I just downloaded LFW and am exploring the libraries, especially the
> IUP GUI
> library as a replacement for Perl's Win32::GUI for recreational coding.
> My
> question is, why isn't the tree control IUP uses in Win32 native and
> are
> there any work-arounds? Personally, this is an accessibility problem
> and
> quite a show stopper at that. I've tested some other controls, too, and
> fortunately the basics like edit fields, buttons and message boxes
> appear to
> work natively, however.
> 
> The problem:
> The tree does not respect my custom window and selection fg/bg colors,
> causing my screen reader not too track the selection in the trees. This
> means there's no spoken feedback when cursoring around and no selection
> tracking magnified, either.  Not only that but the keyboard interface
> has
> holes, too, left, numpad minus and backspace don't work as expected on
> open/close branch and leaf nodes. this means that though I can write
> apps
> using treees all right, I cannot easily test or use them myself.
> End problem.
> 
> This lack of accessibility is a pitty, since IUP seems to be one of my
> favorite GUI libs ever, even after only having read the basic guide.
> 
> Praise::
> It is a lot like Win32::GUI for PErl but more elegant and native
> fealing and
> portable. It gets the excellent box based layout management from GTK+
> I've
> liked ever since I used it, as it maps well to my mental model of a
> GUI. Yet
> using Iup makes writing small apps as easy as TK does. It is also quite
> simple to understand and use unlike Swing, and is natively Lua so you
> don't
> have to read C++ docs as in WxWidgets.
> End praise.
> 
> So briefly put, it definitely looks like my number 1 choice of GUi
> library
> when doing portable GUI apps in Lua, heck I wish Perl had that, too. If
> only
> Iup was more keyboard and screen reader accessible. Of course,
> virtually all
> native controls automagically are, adding non-native controls common to
> all
> platforms is what gets you into trouble accessibilitywise.
> 
> The funny thing about accessibility is that it isn't just the sight-
> impaired
> users, either. Power-users and those whose mice don't work benefit as
> well.
> Alternative input like speech-recognition and tablet PCs can take
> advantage
> of well-coded accessibility e.g. programmatic associations between
> labels
> and labelled controls. Nough said.
> 
> I'm running XP SP3, the latest version of LFW for WIndows and Dolphin
> Supernova 9.02 as the screen reader.
> 
> here's the sample code from the guide I tested the tree with:
> 
> require 'iuplua'
> require 'iupluacontrols'
> tree = iup.tree{}
> tree.addexpanded = "NO"
> list = {
>   {
>     "Horse",
>     "Whale";
>     branchname = "Mammals"
>   },
>   {
>     "Shrimp",
>     "Lobster";
>     branchname = "Crustaceans"
>   },
>   {
>     branchname = "Birds"
>   },
>   branchname = "Animals"
> }
> iup.TreeSetValue(tree, list)
> f = iup.dialog{tree; title = "Tree Test"}
> f:show()
> iup.MainLoop()
> 
> And for testing with custom colors, the relevant section of the .theme
> file
> I've created for myself:
> 
> [Control Panel\Colors]
> ActiveTitle=0 0 0
> Background=0 0 0
> Hilight=255 255 117
> HilightText=0 0 0
> TitleText=255 255 255
> Window=0 0 0
> WindowText=255 255 255
> Scrollbar=113 160 208
> InactiveTitle=84 252 252
> Menu=3 64 97
> WindowFrame=0 0 0
> MenuText=255 255 255
> ActiveBorder=255 255 255
> InactiveBorder=32 64 97
> AppWorkspace=0 0 60
> ButtonFace=32 64 97
> ButtonShadow=21 43 64
> GrayText=192 192 192
> ButtonText=255 255 255
> InactiveTitleText=0 0 0
> ButtonHilight=113 160 208
> ButtonDkShadow=255 255 255
> ButtonLight=255 255 255
> InfoText=255 255 255
> InfoWindow=0 0 80
> GradientActiveTitle=0 0 0
> GradientInactiveTitle=84 252 252
> ButtonAlternateFace=192 192 192
> HotTrackingColor=255 255 117
> MenuHilight=0 0 128
> MenuBar=192 192 192
> 
> HTH.
> 
> 
> --
> With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä
> Accessibility, Apps and Coding plus Synths and Music:
> http://vtatila.kapsi.fi