Re: Lua Future (Was: Re: The ~)

[Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <lhf@...>]

>From erik@hougaard.com  Fri Mar 17 21:38:00 2000
>
>Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:
>> You're free to do as you please, but just don't call the resulting language Lua.
>
>Well I'm calling the language uCoreScript (Lua does not have the hitech
>name that the marketing department demands ;-) - but I'm crediting you
>guys for making Lua in the startup notes, I hope that thats OK.

That's ok.
We'd still prefer that you called it Lua, of course, keeing the syntax intact,
but you're free to do as you wish, as long as you comply with our requests set
in the COPYRIGHT notice.

>But the
>whole "changing the language" issue is getting quite complicated when
>added application functions and tag methods into the discussion - So
>when is the language still Lua ?

Lua is still Lua as long as it can be compiled by our code and the semantics
remain intact. This means that adding application functions and tag methods
does not change the language, but changing ~= to != does, even if you keep ~=.

>I accept, agree and understand that the language Lua is fixed, but just
>like other languages continues to evolve, so should Lua. So how does
>LuaTNG (I have no idea that Next Generation is in Portugies) look like?
>are there plans?

The next version will have a re-entrant API, and this is a major change,
although great pains are being taken to avoid any incompatibilities.
This is the single most important aspect of the next version.
It will also contain many other smaller changes, from the point of view of
the Lua programmer, although much in the code is being changed.

>1. Binary Tree sorting on tables instead of hash. Or maybe some sort of
>plugin system

I don't understand. The language does not have hash -- it has tables, which
up to now have been implemented as hash tables, in several diferent ways,
without anyone being aware of it.

>1. Case statement

Probably not going to happen.

>1. Language constants - That would compile to values.

What do you mean here? a=1+2 being changed to a=3?

>1. BCD support for embedded platforms without floating point.

If your C compiler for an embedded platform supports BCD, then it should be
simple to use it instead of doubles. Keep tuned for a LTN about using ints
instead of doubles, coming soon :-)

>Plase do not take this the wrong way, I'm very pleased with Lua and my
>company has a lot riding on it.

I'm glad to hear this.

>But in these days of "Open Source"
>projects - I will have to consider Lua as a "Closed Development - Open
>Source" thing.

That's right: Lua is Open Source but it's not an "Open Source" project,
in the sense of several people contributing code. But then again you're free
to take an existing implementation and starting your own "Open Source" project
based on it. Actually, a different implementation of Lua would be great!

>I have very little knowledge of the next version - some
>rumors about multi-state, something about better error messages - and a
>release date "soon" ! .. Ofcause this might have something to do with me
>being in Europe. 

Sorry, I said "soon" several weeks ago but an alpha version should be out by
Easter. 

>How are the resources on Tecgraf allocated to Lua - is it part of a
>class or is it something the teachers do in their spare time, is it
>research ? I have no idea.

Lua is a project housed by TeCGraf, which is a major user of Lua, but is
essentially our own effort (we, the Lua Team: roberto, lhf, celes).
Of course, we listen to TeCGraf's needs (and yours and everybody else's),
but Lua is not run by a committee :-)

>If I came to Brazil for a month, would I be
>able to "inhale" some Lua information, tips 'n tricks ? 

Probably yes, if you talked with us.

>Should we organize some resources to contribute to the development Lua -
>I'm sure that I'm speaking on behalf of many of us, that we would be
>glad to contribute!

Thanks very much for the offer. I'm glad that Lua can inspire such enthusiam.
What we need most is a wide base of users, and people like you and others in
the list help a lot to spread the word on Lua. I'm amazed how many usenet
postings mention Lua, from people that sometimes are not even on the list.

We need lots of applications written in Lua,
We need these applications not only to show that Lua exists but also to
display how the metamechamisms and extensible semantics of Lua are really
powerful, as we intended them to be.

We need many more general purpose libraries. This is one of the main obstacles
to take Lua into the main stream (witness perl and python).

We also need development tools, such as an IDE, including a debugger.
The best compliment you could pay Lua would be to have such a project being
run outside of TeCGraf, with no direct participation of the Lua team.
We would still be very happy to answer any questions about Lua, of course.

Finally, we need much more documentation. The reference manual is the
authoritative definition of Lua, but it's dry, like any other manual.
Roberto is working on a book, but it won't be ready any time soon.
The FAW did not ever take off, and so I started LTNs, which I hope will be
a forum for providing detailed technical information on Lua. This includes
cases studies of how common tasks are solved in Lua. I hope to get LTNs from
all of you!

When I say "we need" above, I meant the Lua community, of which the people
in the list are part, not only the Lua team or TeCGraf.

I thank you again for your enthusiam. This is what keep us running.
--lhf